64 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

So, one major design option right around the timeline corner is MASC (Myomer Accelerator Signal Circuitry). Effectively this lets the pilot enable/disable it at will, greatly enhancing the 'mechs top speed when it is enabled. This allows slower 'mechs to keep up with lights, and lights to rocket about the battlefield at extreme speeds.

However, in the board game (and some previous MechWarrior games, such as MW2) you effectively run a risk of your 'mech's legs completely locking up, sending you crashing to the ground/be destroyed, depending on the game 'mechanic. This cannot be fixed and the chance goes up the more you use it.

The recent mod Living Legends went with a different, non-canon approach: They made MASC build heat. Whenever MASC is enabled you quickly start massing heat in exchange for a huge speed/acceleration boost. This really made MASC feel less like a luck roll to me, and more like something that could be used with planning and skill - and thus fits way more into an environment like MWO in my eyes.

So that's basically the poll - I figured it was worth bringing up!

[Aegis Kleais]

I'd like to see the heat build up and the longer you use it the higher a chance you cause an actuator lockup and damage to the mech's internals.

But I think with very sparse use, it should be rather reliable. Like if I wanted a 5 second burst of speed and then didn't use it for another 5-10 seconds, I should rarely ever encounter getting damaged. But those who need the speed have the pro/con of extended use making for higher chance for lockup and damage.

[Orzorn]

Not quite sure how the game is currently handling damage to parts (in Mechwarrior 2 and 3, a crit to a part instantly destroyed it), but if it has a sort of life bar for weapons and actuators (But maybe not heat sinks, don't know), then MASC could build up heat, and after 5 or so seconds, the chance to damage an actuator rises. This isn't as brutal as the tabletop can be, but prolonged bad use, or a long streak of continuous use (maybe you were surrounded and just had to book it), could cause some bad damage to your actuators, slowing you down and reducing your ability to take hits without falling.

This wouldn't be as crippling as the table top, but it would still be punishing.

[Lycan]

I voted for completely cripple the mech. That's the downside for trying to boost the mechs speed and overcharge/stress the myomer bundles.

Now, I only support this option if the mech is crippled not destroyed. If leg destruction in MWO (and nothing leads me to believe it does) means the destruction of your mech as well, then I'd say just go with a massive amount of heat build up and/or possible internal damage.

[Fachxphyre]

i'd like to see an exponentially scaling damage over time effect on leg internals after a buffer period of 10-15 seconds, with the build-up in the DoT counter being reset after, say, a minute of not using the MASC system. would easily allow for the bursts of speed, or even the more risky "have to turn and burn to get out of here alive" sort of tactics that i imagine it was meant for, and disallow the constant use of MASC through a certain threshold of heat sinks.

[Strum Wealh]

Personally, I would prefer to see both a heat effect and a risk-of-damage effect, where the system generates reasonable-to-substantial heat when active (as a function of the 'Mech's speed/throttle-setting) and prolonged periods of activation can lead to "damaged actuators and myomer bundles" and actually decrease the 'Mech's base (non-MASC) speed until the damage is repaired.

[Siilk]

Either falling down and minor damage to the legs' internals or MWLL-like heat buildup. Former is canon and I like the idea of falling if MASCing for too long, latter is also quite logical and already proven to be balanced in sim environment. I even thing a combination of both heating and falling would be nice.

[Dlardrageth]

I'm with Strum here.

Additional small footnote - the "completely cripple" in the poll might be a bit misleading, if you actually meant "eliminated" as in "taken out of the match". Because a "completely crippled" Mech could still remain stationary with full weapon and sensor functionality. Which severely limits its usefulness, but doesn't quite equal a complete loss.

The heat buildup could also have an interesting effect when combined with TSM on the same Mech as MASC.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 14 March 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[guardiandashi]

the tabletop version rules sound completely reasonable for how MASC works under total warfare.

when you activate MASC there is a check made (this would be behind the scenes no player control) at the beginnign of the 1st 10second period the system activates the check fails on a 2 (a 3 or better on 2d6 means the system causes no actual damage to the unit) the second 10 seconds the number needed for the system to keep from causing damage is now 5 or higher, the 3rd 10 seconds of activation raises the number to avoid damage to 7+ the 4th 10 seconds it is an 11+ the 5th 10 seconds damage is automatic.

any turn in which the MASC system causes damage there is 1 critical automatically applied to each leg and it does not specify it has to damage the actuators, but any damage is applied immediately, any damage to the MASC system means it IMMEDIATELY disables and removes the speed bonus it would have caused

[Ray Mason]

I don't like risk/reward stuff based on chance rather than execution so I'd rather not see this in the game altogether.

[Strum Wealh]

Dlardrageth, on 14 March 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

The heat buildup could also have an interesting effect when combined with TSM on the same Mech as MASC.

"[TSM] should not be confused with Myomer Accelerator Signal Circuitry (MASC), an entirely different technology that is incompatible with TSM but also improves myomer performance.

Triple Strength Myomer is, however, compatible with the Supercharger device."

"Because BattleMech superchargers use a entirely different method of increasing performance than that used by MASC, both devices can be used at the same time for cumulative speed boost in exchange for considerably higher odds of a catastrophic failure."

TSM and MASC are (canonically) mutually-exclusive, but both (canonically) can be used in conjunction with a Supercharger.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I agree with both Strum's posts. If used in short bursts it should be.OK. Longer use should have a chance of failure.

Ray Mason, on 15 March 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

I don't like risk/reward stuff based on chance rather than execution so I'd rather not see this in the game altogether.

Any mechanical component/equipment has a "chance" of failure if overstressesd etc. It's a fact of life and happens all the time in RL so why not here? When I was racing bikes the engine would last 2 races, maybe 3 without a stripdown and rebuild, but not 4. You had to decide on the risks and benefits. Same here.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I don't like the idea of just heat since it gives energy loadouts and easy way to run around, get somewhere safe, and dump the heat with little risk

I'd like to see masc have a chance to crit the legs under use. The longer you run it, the higher the chance. When you crit, you damage something in the legs, and fall down, taking falling damage. The leg crit is permanent. Masc is broken after that.

This should have been a multi-choice poll.

[Deadbot1]

I will have to go with the second option...i envision going to engage MASC and having a failure....now my legs won't work or I suffer DRASTIC reduction in speed...immobile or right next to it. I'm not out of the fight, but i can only affect the arc directly in front of me or the area very near me if i have some mobility. I'm sorry buts that's the intent of the canon in my opinion. If you want to play with cutting edge tech...be ready for the cutting edge

[Pht]

MASC runs the myomers outside of their safe operating range; it should do what the TTr represents - run a real chance of destroying myomers and limb joints.

Using MASC is like putting a 200hp nitrous oxide injection system into a completely stock grocery getter with a 1.4liter fuel-sipping motor.

Really fun, ... and ultimately destructive.

Edited by Pht, 15 March 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[EDMW CSN]

I prefer a more progressive damage scale instead.
MASC uses no heat, but after 10 seconds your legs start taking damage on the internal level and fast !!
Push it for 15 seconds and your leg internals are so badly worn that you will be reducing to a limping speed (slower than walk speed).

Any longer your cockpit hits the floor.

[Ray Mason]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 15 March 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

I agree with both Strum's posts. If used in short bursts it should be.OK. Longer use should have a chance of failure.

Any mechanical component/equipment has a "chance" of failure if overstressesd etc. It's a fact of life and happens all the time in RL so why not here? When I was racing bikes the engine would last 2 races, maybe 3 without a stripdown and rebuild, but not 4. You had to decide on the risks and benefits. Same here.

It's a coin flip. You're in a critical situation and you need speed, you flip a coin - if you "win", you get to win the match, if you lose, you lose the match. By that logic any light mech would have to have the option of a coin flip alpha strike. A hell lot of mess in a twitch based game. With luck lights would alpha strike assaults dead and assaults would outrun lights... seriously, you want that in a game? Supposing every match you have everything fixed it would be a terrible mechanic. I doubt repairing between matches will be an issue.

[Sp12]

Chance is bad if the game is meant to be competitive.

I'd go for damage over time after a 10 second buffer or massive heat ala MWLL.

[FireStorm2]

I also agree that this sort of chance is not a good mechanic in this kind of game. Some degree of incrementally (but predictably) increasing damage over time starting from the moment of activation seems more appropriate.

This system would have the advantage of retaining the feel of MASC in tabletop verus the feel of MASC in MWLL. In MWLL, a decision to use MASC is dependant on different considerations. Can I sink the heat before I'm likely to get into a confrontation, thus negating any negative effect of the MASC? Can I still fight effectively at this heat level?

Having just a little bit of damage over time to the leg internals would make even running MASC briefly have at least some impact, preventing a player from gaming the system too much by running it continuously and repeatedly until a predetermined point before which no damage could be sustained. Running MASC for longer could ramp the damage over time up exponentially, discouraging a player from using up their legs' internals all at once in a single long, game-breaking event during a match (though it would be possible to wreck your mech's legs this way in exchange for the effect if someone was unskilled/desperate enough to do it). Skillful use, activating the unit only at need and for short bursts, would prevent the effect from crippling the mech needlessly while still allowing for a useful tactical advantage.

[Ryuu Tetsuhara]

I voted for the heat buildup option, because I think that this is the most realistic consequence of the MASC system's use and the easiest one for the developers to implement in the game. A (partial) leg destruction would also be an option (decreasing the walking/running speed of the mech) but the consequences for the pilot could become too grave and who would then seriously be considering to equip a mech with MASC in the game (making its implementation in the game nearly redundant)? Of course, it is not the standard mech equipment and in my opinion some risk should be involved apart from spending extra C-bills on it and dedicating valuable mech loading space to it, thus, I think a massive heat buildup and decrease in system's efficiency (with every subsequent use or depending on how long the system is active) will be 'punishment' enough for its user.

Edited by Ryuu Tetsuhara, 18 March 2012 - 01:18 PM.